If you start asking chefs in the Bay Area where they source their knives, you’ll hear the same answer over and over again. Established in 2005, initially as a bespoke knife-sharpening service, Bernal Cutlery is a San Francisco institution. Yes, for their cutlery selection that’s nearly 30,000 knives deep, but also for the heart they pour into their craft.
As chefs who obsess over every element in every dish (don’t ask us how we sleep at night), we recognize the level of dedication that inspires Bernal Cutlery founders Kelly Kozak and Josh Donald. It’s easy to lose all sense of time when weaving through their flagship store in the Mission District, because that devotion is on display in every product on their shelves – from kitchen tools to pantry staples to, ahem, “The World’s Best Pizza Cutter.” With its arched entrance and heavy use of wood cabinetry throughout, the space recalls an era when highly specialized shops were the heartbeat of communities. Each detail is an invitation to slow down, to nerd out with one of their team members (or fellow customer) about a vintage knife or Kagetsu Donabe, and to ignore the persistent ping from a cellular device. It's emotional salve from the high-intensity environment of a restaurant kitchen.
Bernal Cutlery’s loyal following is a testament to the intention and integrity that Kelly, Josh and their talented team apply to all they do – something we experienced firsthand during the development of our collaboration pizza cutter. Over the course of the project (that was two+ years in the making!), we were so fortunate to get to know Kelly and Josh better. It’s only fair that we share the wealth and feature this incomparable duo as our February “Pasta People."
Spoiler alert: Kelly and Josh are the coolest. And Kelly’s cacciatore is way better than Josh’s.
Your shop is a treasure trove of knives from new commissions to vintage pieces. Tell us the story behind one of your favorite knives.
Kelly: An old vintage AuSabot paring knife. I wrote about this recently in our Substack. I found this particular one in a box of old knives—what Josh would have considered “dross”—but it was just so cool to me. The perfect slim, spear-point blade for hand cutting. Exactly the kind of knife that feels right the second you pick it up.
BUT. It was also old in the way some vintage knives are… kind of gross. The handle was split and prone to catching debris. At one point, Josh threw it away when I wasn’t looking, and I fished it out of the trash. I was so mad. Later, we discovered the same knife is still being produced in France—and we now stock and sell it at the shop. It’s a stellar design, older than dirt for all the right reasons.
In this photo: the original I rescued from the trash is on the bottom, the new one I use now is in the middle, and the current shop stock is on top—the one you can get today.
I clearly have a problem collecting little knives. I also have a private collection of WWII M3 knives because I’m a nerd and Josh finds them for me. I cannot just talk about one knife. I tried. Sorry.
Josh: Shameless self-promotion and self-aggrandizement from me for a change; I have to talk about the Fineline Gyuto that we just released. What I haven't talked about much publicly is that, as a craftsperson, this knife is an homage to Ashi Hamono. I haven’t wanted to run on the coattails of their popularity, but they set a standard for thin geometry that has been my north star for cutting feel since I first started importing their knives in 2011. It was nearly impossible to sell them at first, but I’m really happy to see their popularity now, even if we can’t get as many. Ashi Hamono in Sakai is where I first learned to do hamaguri (convex) grinding on a large Sakai style kaiten mizu toishi grinding wheel, and they have been very instrumental in helping me learn how to grind.
I have been using the prototype in my kitchen at home for six months, and I’m so happy with it. The blade is nearly identical to the Greenfield Gyuto, it's ground from the same A2 tool steel stock (Ashi does not use this steel) it's just a little shorter and obviously with a different handle. I still love the Greenfield, it has a different feel with a heavier handle and is a little longer, which I generally prefer, but the Fineline has that classic light weight wa-gyuto feel that has become a go to for a good reason.
It’s been reported that you like to “smell knives as a way to get to know them better.” What does smelling a knife unlock for you?
Kelly: I feel like such a weirdo now that this is public! Just like smelling old books, old knife smells are sometimes sweet, dusty, maybe oily or leathery. For me, it's like tweaking an antenna to get a signal from the past, as if they are telling us something. Just like Proust wrote about how a madeleine can conjure up the familiar, smelling old knives for me helps plot an old knife in time. It’s weird, I know. But Wendell Berry talked about this so beautifully in his essay “The Work of Local Culture,” where he muses on what the time and life of a 50-year-old steel bucket means and builds a case to consider local culture. We are selling his collection of essays, which is in right now – “What are People For”– it’s a good, thirsty book for people tired of screen scrolling.
Josh: When sharpening new knives I don’t want to be able to smell them (ha ha) that's usually not pleasant. Just to dispel any misconceptions out there, It's OK to use soap and water on your knives. I read the tea leaves on old knives a little differently than with smell, but I do have a collection that came from the estate of an old friend who smoked cigars and every time I go into one of his bins I think of his old foundry in Oakland that had a metal shop and cigar smells to it. That's definitely a smell portal into a long-gone world I feel.
You have a social media series called “What’s in My Basket” that both of you have also participated in to share your personal favorites from the shop. What’s currently in your basket?
Kelly: Alesi espresso/Moka Pot, little Japanese tea biscuits, YunHai Soy Sauce, What are People For? by Wendell Berry. Historically Inaccurate Table Knives [which are refurbished table knives that Josh turns into cheese and paring knives], a 12” MadeIn Carbon Steel pan. Also, a special shout-out to Unreasonable Hospitality by Will Guidara. It's such a timely book about bringing the philosophy of hospitality through the art of caring for your crew. It got a lot of attention for well-deserved reasons. This is my plug to read books!
Josh: Bernal Cutlery Fineline 8.25” Gyuto (even though I have a prototype that's getting heavy use at home); Crown Prince Kipper Snacks (the gateway drug of tinned fish for me–going back 30 years); limited edition for Chinese New Year BANGTea x Formosa Fine Chocolates Gaba Oolong Chocolate Bar (I loved their Chinese New Year chocolate last year); A Stock New Old Stock 12” Ideal Chef Carbon Rosewood Thiers 1980-90 (cuz I love a full sized Western chef knife sometimes); Ginger Drinking Vinegar (so delicious with a little sparkling water); Pallares professional kitchen shears (these shears are beasts and do anything kitchen shears should and keep an edge); A Revolution in Eating: How the Quest for Food Shaped America by James E McWilliams. I just finished the Ken Burns “American Revolution” documentary a few months ago so this looks like a good follow up. Last, is the Tsuchima Nagura Bench Stone. The man who was running this mine in Tsuchima Kyushu just retired, so it's now shut down. I always liked the toothy polished edge this stone makes and it's a good pre-polisher for fine natural stones. I'm sad to see this stone mine go inactive so I’m hoarding one.
Walk us through your “Shift Notes.” What’s a day-in-the-life like for you?
Kelly: I am up at 5am drinking coffee, doing recovery-related shit and then getting a few hours of work before I get our mean and gnarly teen boys up for school. I get to work at 8am, and I’m a machine toggling between Bernal Cutlery, family and volunteer gigs until 10pm. I try not to take the computer to bed… but it happens.
We always ask our Pasta People to share their go-to pasta dish. What’s heavy in your home cooking rotation, and what tools + ingredients are you pulling in for the assist?
Josh: This is tough, neither of these pastas are ones that I would make an effort to crow about publicly as they are not super glamorous. It's a tie between a Reformed Vegetarian Northern Californian Bolognese usually with more mirepoix than Kelly prefers (with meat, but no milk), or when I’m really pressed for time, a simple Chicken Cacciatore - both are going to get a teaspoon or two of the shio koji garlic, a little fish sauce and plenty of olive oil. I’m sure there’s the pasta world version of the ‘rate my chives’ that would take issue with some of this, but how I make my pasta is not a democracy. Sorry Kelly, I’m still going to add some carrots to the mirepoix. I skip the rosemary for her though. I guess my pasta is a parliamentary system.
Kelly: All I have to say is my cacciatore is way better than Josh’s, and I use bariani balsamic vinegar to replace the red wine. I remember watching my friend Gina Ambrosio’s grandmother cook this and many other things out of her garage when I was in the 9th grade in PIttsburgh PA. She was a brilliant Italian cook and had the best hustle selling food out of this makeshift garage kitchen to all the labor workers in Greenfield and Squirlhill; her house was at the border of the two neighborhoods. I’m sure she died a wealthy woman from all those years.
Bonus question: What album is playing when you open the shop every morning?
Kelly: I let the crew choose the shop music, but on my way to work lately I‘ve been really into reviving the Swell Map’s International Rescue. Highlighting the song "New York"; and on the down low, Menace has a song "So F*&@k You" which has been my post-election song to blow off steam as needed around the national nightmare we are all in.
Josh: I’m sneaking The Music of Raymond Scott and The Mystery Lights on when I’m working the floor. When I’m grinding knives for our production my top choices recently have been: MESS, Teengenerate and Ex-Cult. In the sharpening room doing customer’s knives last week saw a big Oh-Sees binge.
